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UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Last post 08-30-2008, 6:56 PM by MikLaw. 10 replies.
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  •  08-29-2008, 11:10 PM 93445

    UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    You'd think the OSBI would know better. On the other hand, maybe they do and are just "testing the waters".

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry90.htm

    CLUELESS COPS CRUSH CONSTITUTION

     

    By Larry Pratt
    August 29, 2008

    NewsWithViews.com

    A June 8 murder of two young people in rural Waleetka has provided the excuse for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) to behave as if the Bill of Rights is an impediment to be overcome in order to employ effective police procedures.

    In their search for the killer, the OSBI sent a letter to some sixty owners of .40 caliber handguns (the same caliber as used by the murderer) in the community where the victims had lived. The letter "invited" the owners to bring the guns in for testing.

    This letter raises disturbing questions.

    The first question is -- what is the probable cause that would justify sending the letter to the selected handgun owners? If there were probable cause, why were no warrants obtained per the Fourth Amendment?

    For the twenty or so owners who have not responded to the "invitation," will they be forced to testify against themselves (in violation of the Fifth Amendment) in some second phase of the investigation? If they do not comply with a warrantless "invitation," will the OSBI agents tell us that that now gives them probable cause? This sounds like a dragnet, not an investigation.

    The second question is, where did the police get a registration list of Oklahoma gun owners? This violation of the Second Amendment should outrage every gun owner, indeed, every freedom-loving citizen of the state.

    The third question is, why does OSBI think that a registered gun will lead them to the murderer? I will repeat now what I told the media during the Beltway Sniper murder spree in 2002. Cops will find the murderer's gun (if they ever find it) when they find the murderer.

    How can cops in the gun-friendly state of Oklahoma be so clueless? A policewoman called in to a Philadelphia talk show I was doing years ago. She stated that in her 26 years on the force she had never arrested a criminal who had used a registered gun.

    OSBI agents should be sent back to school. What they are doing to Oklahoma gun owners is not only constitutionally offensive, it is a waste of time. They have put themselves into the same ridiculous club whose membership includes Montgomery County, Maryland’s former police chief, Charles Moose.

    Chief Moose led an investigation similar to that of the OSBI's. His officers got a registration list of Maryland suburban gun owners who had bought rifles that used the same caliber as the Muslims who were conducting their Beltway Sniper jihad. Moose was convinced that the murderer was a disgruntled white man (similar to one of the voters whom Obama complains bitterly that cling to their guns and Bibles) driving a white panel truck.

    Well, I was right and Moose was wrong. When some truckers found the murderers, it turned out that they were two black converts to Islam who were asleep in their grey sedan. One of them was cradling the murder weapon.

    Where did Chief Moose get his registration list? From the same place the OSBI got their registration list. Government agents can rummage through the names and addresses of gun owners in the name of fighting crime -- and they get this information from the records the federal government unconstitutionally requires firearms dealers to maintain.

    Gun owners should be aware that historically, registration lists have never been used to solve crimes, but they have made dandy tools for disarming the subjects of a dictatorship. Think Cuba (under Fidel Castro), Uganda (under Idi Imin), Cambodia (under Pol Pot), China (under Mao Tse Dung), Germany (under Adolph Hitler) and Russia (under Vladimir Lenin).

    Chief Moose and the OSBI have provided, and are providing, more proof (as if we needed it) that registration is not a crime fighting tool.

    The 1968 Gun Control Act imposed the decentralized, but very real, national registration system that now records all gun owners who buy a gun from a dealer. That is why Gun Owners of America has always opposed the 1968 Gun Control Act and has asked Congress to dismantle this threat to freedom -- a scheme that is not even an effective crime-fighting tool.

    Without an unconstitutional registration list at their disposal, OSBI would not have had this opportunity to trample on the Bill of Rights -- and embarrass themselves in public.

    © 2008 Larry Pratt - All Rights Reserved

  •  08-30-2008, 1:04 AM 93449 in reply to 93445

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    How  not surprising. My question is, when they do the background check, they are supposed to check MY background. Why do they need weapon information (make, S/N caliber etc.) to check on MY background. This is not a database. This is a confiscation list.

    "This year will go down in history. For the first time in history a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future."
    Adolph Hitler. 1935


    God bless America. And save it from the Dems.

    Kimber Pro-carry II - 0.45.
    Glock17.
    Bersa Thunder 380.
    Remington 597
    NRA Member
  •  08-30-2008, 7:16 AM 93483 in reply to 93445

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    I read about the letters to the gun owners....supposedly the cops went to all of the pawn shops and gun shops to obtain their lists......The two young people who were murdered were little girls.....See story below....

    An official investigating the double murder of two young girls in Oklahoma said Tuesday the "shooter wanted these girls dead," as the relative who discovered their lifeless bodies remembered the children as inseparable best friends.

    Taylor Dawn Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, were found shot to death in a ditch Sunday evening along a rural road in Weleetka, Okla., about 90 miles from Oklahoma City. Thus far, police have few clues as to who shot the girls and why.

    Click here for photos.

    "There's obviously an issue here where the shooter wanted these girls dead and certainly carried that to its fullest extent," Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation Inspector Stan Florence told FOX News.

    At a press conference Tuesday afternoon, state investigators backed away from earlier statements that they had a person of interest in the case.

    "Person of interest is just a term," Special Agent Ben Rosser of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation said. "We don't have a person of interest; we don't have a suspect."

    An autopsy found the girls had died of multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and face, Chief Investigator Kevin Rowland of the Oklahoma Chief Medical Examiner's office told FOXNews.com.

     

    Peter Placker, Taylor's grandfather, found the girls dead about 300 yards north of their home on Sunday after the girls did not answer a cell phone they had with them, Rosser said. Placker immediately called police.

    The girls were found clothed in their T-shirts and shorts. There was no apparent sign of molestation, though police are leaving that possibility open. "I don't believe it was, but you just can't discount that," Rosser said.

    Taylor and Skyla had walked about a quarter-mile from Taylor's home to a bridge frequented by locals several miles from both Interstate 40 and U.S. Highway 75.

    Investigators said they do not know what type of gun was used to kill the girls. They have an idea of the bullet caliber, though they didn't release that information. They're also stymied by the possible motive.

    "We have thought from the worst-case scenario — just a haphazard shooting — to they possibly walked down to meet someone, to possibly they walked down there, even though it's a short distance, they may have interrupted something," Rosser said. "So we're looking at everything right now."

    Rosser said they believe someone from the community may have committed the crime.

    "The reason we're just looking at possibly a local person: Because of the location there, it's just not likely somebody pulled off U.S. 75 or I-40 and just stopped there," he said.

    On Tuesday, Placker remembered his daughter and her friend as inseparable.

    "When they didn't have something to do with their parents, they spent all their time talking to each other or spent the night with each other," Placker told FOXNews.com.

    Placker and his wife had custody of Taylor, who called them "mom" and "dad." He said Taylor was a straight-A student who quickly made friends when the family moved to Weleetka from Oklahoma City several years ago.

    "Everybody down here loved her," Placker said.

    For a year, Taylor had made the quarter-mile walk down the road to the bridge daily as exercise, Placker told FOXNews.com.

    "She hardly ever does it at the same time every day," he said. "Sometimes she'll do it in the morning, sometimes she'll do it in the afternoon, sometimes she'll do it about an hour or two before dark."

    The brutal crime has shaken this rural community. Okfuskee County Sheriff Jack Choate is telling parents to keep an eye on their kids.

    "We don't know what the threat is, but if it were me, I wouldn't let my kids out walking unless there was other people around you know that you knew," he said. "Just natural security for your own kids."

    A reward has grown to $14,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible, and the Bank of Commerce in Waleetka has set up accounts to help pay for the girls' burials. But it's little consolation for family members who have only just begun to grieve.

    "She was my only baby," Placker said. "I've got four other [children], but that's my baby."

     


    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." Albert Einstein
  •  08-30-2008, 7:23 AM 93487 in reply to 93449

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    Just so everyone knows, the States can get around the NCIS requirements.  North Carolina does it by having pistol purchasers get a background check by the local Sheriff who then issues a pistol purchase permit.  Present the permit at the gun store and no call is made for an NCIS background check.  The still take all the info on the required forms, but the info stays at the store.

    CHL eliminates the background check requirement.


  •  08-30-2008, 7:40 AM 93492 in reply to 93487

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    Umm, isn't every firearm tested prior to shipping it to the FFL?  The serial # should already have bullet markings (fingerprint of the firearm?) at the manufacturer and I'm sure these results are available to law enforcement aren't they?
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.
  •  08-30-2008, 7:45 AM 93493 in reply to 93492

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    If you give LE an inch, they take a mile.  Just like every other human on the planet, it's just how it is.  Strict guidelines must be enforced and followed at all times, but they aren't.  Just like the politicians of our country, law enforcement places themselves above the citizens and this is proving to be dangerous to our freedoms and our Constitution.
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.
  •  08-30-2008, 10:37 AM 93529 in reply to 93492

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    MikLaw:
    Umm, isn't every firearm tested prior to shipping it to the FFL?  The serial # should already have bullet markings (fingerprint of the firearm?) at the manufacturer and I'm sure these results are available to law enforcement aren't they?

    At this time, the only signature of the firearm is the fired casing that comes with the new firearm in the little brown envelope.  Only a few states require the brown envelope, unopened, be filed with law enforcement.  Yours is one of those states.  there is movement underway to have bullets fired and the signature of the actual bullet put on record, and for the chamber to imprint the casing so any casings found at a crime scene would identify the firearm.  another California proposal I think.

  •  08-30-2008, 11:11 AM 93536 in reply to 93529

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    Jake, thanks for the clarification.
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.
  •  08-30-2008, 5:17 PM 93567 in reply to 93529

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    And not of that junk has solved a crime But has cost millions to set up and run.  More feel good laws that do nothing . We need laws repealed For every new law or Reg. repeal  100 already on books.

    Their are over 20,000 gun laws in America and the anti's still aren't satisfied .  These cops need to do police work not fishing .

    Want to test my pistol sorry  better bring a warrent . otherwise letter means nothing.


    Bersa Thunder,
    PPK/S,
    1990 Colt Mustang,
    380 Kel Tec
    380's Rule

    "Just say "Lay A Way"

    "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

    "Hokey religions and plastic glocks are no match for a good 1911 at your side, kid."





  •  08-30-2008, 6:19 PM 93576 in reply to 93445

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    I agree with the article however, these little girls were executed!

    They were out in the middle of no where, someplace only locals would go.

    If the police have decided that it was a .40 cal. handgun, then they need to do some old fashion police work. I had heard at one time that it appeared two different guns were used and they thought it was done by two people.

    Both these little girls faced their executioner(s) they were shot in the face and chest! What a horrific death, worse, the seconds before..... I can't even imagine.

    I do know one thing, they have a very, very sick individual(s) walking around their community and he/they need to be caught before it can happen again.

    I just watched a documentary on the "ice man" the coldest, cruelest hit man of all time and he wouldn't kill a child........ it's the only thing he wouldn't kill.

    These are some sick s.o.b.'s

    RT


    VERITAS AEQUITAS
  •  08-30-2008, 6:56 PM 93578 in reply to 93576

    Re: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    I agree 100% RT.  Whoever killed those little girls need to have some old fashioned OKIE payback, not some police that want to use this to stomp all over the rights of law abiding gun totin citizens.
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.
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