:: Bersa Talk ::

I heard from some one once that if you get a poisonus snake/spider bite you should tazer it.  Yes, tazer,  your suposed to do it on the wound in a cross pattern.  It suposedly breaks down the poison.  It sounds crazy but he said that he knew someone who had to do it, and it worked like a charm.  has any body else heard this before.  How bout that to wake you up in the morning, LOL.

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If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

http://keelynet.com/biology/snake1.txt

I found this after i made this post, check it out.

 

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If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

if you get a venomous spider or snake bite and you have a taser handy let us know what happens after you tase yourself, bro.




toni

I also hear that there are gold pots at end the of rainbows.  Tazer that thing that looks like a spider bite if you want.  Lot of times snakes and spiders don't shoot venom when they bite.  I'm also willing to accept that a tazer isn't as efficient as they claim, even for its intended purpose.  They also told me Brittany speirec was pretty. Go fig.

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Hey! Who wants a beer.

LOL, I know it sounds absolutely nuts, but it beats bringing a hospital around with your snake bite kit.  It's also supposed to be an impressive pain killer, strange as it may be. 

Hear is another quote I found,

At a local computer show an individual told about his personal experience with a stun gun. He claimed that he recently had a terrible hanging-on tooth ache. In desperation he tried touching his face quickly with his stun gun in the vicinity of the pain, AND the pain stopped, never to return. Then a retired aerospace engineer tells about a friend that was bitten by a rattlesnake. This friend put the stun gun to the bite area and never had the slightest reaction to the bite. Was it really a rattlesnake? Yes, he killed the snake and obtained an expert identification.

Then in a letter to the editor of the prestigious medical journal The Lancet, July 26, 1986, p229, we find the following article entitled HIGH VOLTAGE SHOCK TREATMENT FOR SNAKE BITE.

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The mainstay of treatment of a person bitten by a venomous insect or reptile is to give anti-venom as soon as possible. However, the serum needed may not be available in remote areas of the world. In Ecuador high voltage, low current electric shocks have proved very successful. In the eastern Amazon jungles of Ecuador 4% of deaths are caused by snake bites. 45% of the Waoroni tribe have been bitten by a snake and 50% of adult males will be bitten more than once. Most of the bites in Ecuador are from snakes identified by Dr. Giovanni Onores (Catholic University, Quito) as Bothrops atrox, B bileneatus, B nasutus, B schlegelei, B castelnaudi, and Lachesis muta.

The idea of using an electrical current for treating venomous bites arose from a report in a local paper in Illinois, USA, of a farmer who was hyperallergic to bee stings and who found that applying a high voltage, low amperage, direct current shock to the site of his bee stings prevented his usual severe reactions. For snake bites a 20-25 kV, <1 mA direct current is applied to the site of the bite. The bitten area (usually a limb) is electrically grounded as close to the site as possible and current is applied via an insulated probe to the bite for 1-2s. Usually four or five shocks are given with 5-10s between them. An outboard motor is one commonly available source of such current. A lead carrying an insulated probe can be attached to a spark plug, and the current is best applied with the engine at half-throttle. Other motors with spark plugs (eg, lawnmowers and auxiliary lighting plants) have also been used with excellent results.

We have records on 34 cases of bites on limbs where there was evidence of penetration of the skin. The current was applied within 30 min, and 10-15 min later all pain had gone and the usual sequelae of an untreated bite (swelling, serosanguinous bullae, bleeding, shock, and renal failure) did not develop. No patient died. After an hour the patient was usually able to go home. At follow-up there was no necrosis of tissue around the bite due to the bite or treatment. 7 people who refused the shock treatment experienced the classic complications and 2 needed life-saving amputations.

2 other patients were not treated until 2h after being bitten by viper snakes (B atrox and L muta) and they arrived with swollen limbs and intense pain; 1 had signs of spontaneous bleeding. Seven electrical treatments were given, producing pain relief in 30 min; 12h later the swellings had not progressed and there were no signs of bleeding. After 3 days the swelling had almost disappeared; however, 1 had a small necrotic area around the bite site.

This technique has been used equally successfully by other investigators in the jungles of Ecuador for other types of bite, such as those of the ant (Paraponera sp). Colleagues in Irian Jaya, Indonesia, and Peru have also used this technique with similar results.

Moving towards a more portable system for this treatment, we have modified a 5 x 13 cm unit, popularly known as a "stun gun", with a 9 V battery to deliver a direct pulsating current of around 25 kV and less than 1 mA. One probe acts as a ground terminal while the other applies the current to the bite. Such currents do not stimulate myocardial muscle.

The biological basis of this treatment is unknown. There may be a local effect on the host tissues or there may be a direct effect on the activity of the venom itself. Venom has a short half-life and a shut-down of local vessels by electrospasm may confine the venom locally long enough for it to become inactive. Whatever the mechanism, this technique is a practicable and potentially life saving procedure.

Hospital Vozandes,

Quito, Ecuador Ronald H. Guderian

Wolfson Tropical Pathology Unit

London School of Hygiene and

Tropical Medicine

London WCIE 7H7 Charles D. Mackenzie

Department of Microbiology

and Public Health

Michigan State University, USA Jeffrey F. Williams

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If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

stun guns for snake bites old news.

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bersa thunder 380
taurus pt/7 pro cds .45acp
taurus pt 99 af 9mm para.
smith & wesson 22-S
4 rifles, 3 shotguns, 1 muzzleloader, 1 bow.

I carry an   (Extractor) , it comes in a yellow box and can be found at Walmart in the camping section.

BTW   I have never used it , and hope that I never have to .

Spot

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"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
- U.S. Marine Corps

Spot:

I carry an   (Extractor) , it comes in a yellow box and can be found at Walmart in the camping section.

BTW   I have never used it , and hope that I never have to .

Spot

Do some research then throw it away. It takes up room in your kit while being positively useless. Fortunately the wallyworld kit is cheap, so your not losing much.

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You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale

Not so fast, Parrothead! 

While it's true that the little "snake bite kits" that were marketed for years are pretty worthless for treating snake bites (these are the little matchbox size kits that are usually green in color) - the newer "Extractor" kits with the syringe type suction devices actually do have benefit - research shows - if applied during the first few minutes after a snake bite - say, 3 to 5 minutes for sure, possibly up to 8 or 10 minutes. 

They also have potential effectiveness for treating insect bites/stings of several kinds:  wasp stings, bee stings, hornet stings, spider bites, scorpion stings, etc.  Again, the more quickly the Extractor syringe is used after the bite/sting occurs, the more effective it is.

Obviously, the Extractor is not a 'cure all' for snake bites or insect bites or stings, but the research is in, and, at least if applied early enough after the injury, it is way better than "nothing".

parrothead_madness:

Spot:

I carry an   (Extractor) , it comes in a yellow box and can be found at Walmart in the camping section.

BTW   I have never used it , and hope that I never have to .

Spot

Do some research then throw it away. It takes up room in your kit while being positively useless. Fortunately the wallyworld kit is cheap, so your not losing much.

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http://www.yourweapons.com/

Jay1958:

Not so fast, Parrothead! 

Obviously, the Extractor is not a 'cure all' for snake bites or insect bites or stings, but the research is in, and, at least if applied early enough after the injury, it is way better than "nothing".

Do more research. I speak from a background of immersion in the medical field. I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV, but my wife and mother are both ICU nurses, as are several aunts. In my family if you count my 2nd cousins there are over 25 nurses and doctors, not including the emt's and combat medics.

So, according to all of these folks, with whom I have discussed this specifically, an extractor syringe is positively useless. Not only is it not a cure all, it is a cure not at all. Carry one if you wish, but there is no reason to whatsoever.

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You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale

On doing further research, there is a significant amount of research and articles that indicate that the Extractor is not effective for snake bites.  There are also some that continue to recommend the Extractor, but only if it can be applied and used very quickly after the bite, in three minutes or less.

There does seem to be significant evidence that the Extractor can be much more effective for insect stings and bites than for snake bites, again, if used quickly enough after they occur.

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http://www.yourweapons.com/

Because of a snake encounter I told the wife about, she bought an extractor, but I havn't even taken it out of the package that it came it to check it out.  My understanding was that the venom disperses almost immediately.  The extractor might get a little of the venom, but like cutting the skin and sucking, it wouldn't be much. 

 

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I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.

I worked one summer as a state park ranger at the Davis Mountains State park at Ft. Davis , Texas.  Our instructions if anyone got bit, was to calm them down, ice the bitten area and get them to a hospital, as the danger of staph infection would be greater if we tried to cut and apply a suction to the punctures.  Turniquettes were also a no no for the same reason.  Using a taser on a bite would seem to negate the calming down.

Jake3501:

Using a taser on a bite would seem to negate the calming down.

No chit!

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I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.

The best snake bite cure:

Rattlesnake, Copporhead and Cottonmouth (water moccason) venom is mostly Somotoxic, meaning it is mostly a a protein than begins digesting the muscle tissue it is injected (fanged into), much like injecting meat tenderizer or papaya juice into a steak, it starts breaking down the muscle tissue, literally digesting it.  Putting a cold pack or ice to an affected area will slow down the process)  The larger the snake, the bigger and longer the fangs, the more venom is likely to be injected into the muscle tissue and deeper.  Many of the venomous snakes have a level of Neurotoxic Venom, which acts on the Cental Nervous System and is more deadly than the Somotoxic Venom.  Fortunately the Neuro toxic venom is mostly relegated to the smaller species of venomous snakes.  There are I think, 11 species of Rattlesnakes in North America, and the smaller species such as the Rock Rattler, and the Sidewinder have a larger amount of Neurotoxic mix in their venom than the larger Species like the Diamond Back or the Prairie Rattler, so don't go thinking the smaller the snake, the better.  The Coral snake (Red and Yellow Kill a Fellow) is the most poisonous snake in the U S, and nearly all of it's venom is Neurotoxic. Fortunately, the Corral snake does not have fangs, it can only chew and typically you would notice before it broke the skin.  The incidence rate of Corral snake bite victims would be very, very low.  You should be familiar with the types of venomous snakes in your area or the area you would escape to, and their foraging habits, what type of habitat they like and be cautious when in their enviroment.  Most snakes are nocturnal in hotter weather and are seen mostlyy in Evenings, Night and early morning and hold up in holes (dens) and under rocks fallen trees that provide cover.  During early-mid spring and most of hunting season, Rattlesnakes can be found almost anytime of day foraging or sunning.  The best snake bite cure is to not get bit.  Be aware of your surroundings and the creatures you share it with.