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Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

Last post 06-11-2008, 5:22 PM by jc40. 5 replies.
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  •  06-11-2008, 11:04 AM 77986

    Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

    The news story (I added the red for emphasis):
    --------------------------------

    By KOMO Staff & News Services

    SEATTLE -- The 22-year-old Snohomish man who was arrested after a gunshot wounded three people at the annual Northwest Folklife Festival at Seattle Center was charged on Thursday.

    The King County Prosecutor's Office charged Clinton Chad Grainger with assault in the second degree for the shooting. Prosecutors also added a firearm enhancement with the charge.

    Authorities said a 9mm Glock Grainger was carrying in an ankle holster discharged during a scuffle he was having with another man.

    The bullet grazed the other man's nasal passage, and then struck another man in the hand and a woman in the leg. None suffered life-threatening injuries. The woman and second man who were struck were not involved in the argument.

    According to the charging documents, one of the victims told police Grainger approached him in a confrontational manner and asked him for his name. When the victim refused to give his name, Grainer pushed him in the chest then abruptly reached down to his ankle.

    The victim, who believed Grainger was trying to reach for a weapon, tackled Grainger to the ground. While wrestling, he said he heard a shot being fired then felt a burning pain on his face. The victim's friend then jumped in and helped to keep Grainger down until police arrived.

    The victim was later found to have powder burns to his upper lip and nose.

    While being questioned by police Grainger said it was unclear who fired the gun during the scuffle.   "I dunno, he pulled the trigger or I pulled the trigger...the trigger was pulled," he told police.

    Prosecutors called Grainger a danger to the community, and said he is under medical care because he has schizophrenia and is in a methadone program.

    Grainger is being held in the King County Jail on $350,000 bail. If convicted, he could be sentenced to up to 45 months in prison.   His arraignment is scheduled for June 12.

    --------------------------------

    The problem for all of us is how "community reaction" may affect CC permits in this and other states.  Here's the first change:
    --------------------------------

    City to limit concealed weapons

    Executive order coming in wake of Folklife shooting

    By SCOTT GUTIERREZ AND ANGELA GALLOWAY
    P-I REPORTERS

    Two weeks after a shooting at Seattle's Northwest Folklife Festival, Mayor Greg Nickels reportedly plans to announce restrictions Monday on concealed weapons on city property.

    Nickels' office declined to offer any details about the executive order. A news conference was scheduled at the Police Department with Nickels, Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske and state legislators.

    In a news release, the initiative was described as aimed at "making the city safer from guns." It follows the shooting late last month that left three people wounded at Seattle Center.

    "Essentially, my understanding is that Mayor Nickels is going to announce an (executive order) pertaining to prohibiting weapons on city property. I believe it is in response to the shootings at the Folklife Festival," said one official close to the situation. The accused shooter, Clinton Grainger, 22, carried a concealed pistol license, despite a history of mental illness that didn't meet the standard for denying his license application. The Snohomish County resident has been charged in King County Superior Court with second-degree assault. Authorities say his gun fired as he tried to remove it from an ankle holster during a fight. A single bullet injured one man's nose, passed through another person's hand and lodged in a woman's leg, authorities said.

    Executive orders are directives to city departments. They do not require City Council approval. They typically don't apply to the general public, but to the policies and actions of city employees, agencies and properties. For example, the mayor has issued orders requiring Seattle agencies to avoid buying bottled water and to provide job benefits to the same-sex partners of city workers.

    Officials from Seattle Parks and Recreation met with Nickels' staff Friday to discuss what options might be available for improving safety in public places and city parks.

    Two years ago, Nickels and Kerlikowske helped lead an unsuccessful campaign to adopt stricter state regulations requiring background checks on private sales at gun shows. The measure died in the Legislature in the face of opposition from gun rights groups. Last December, Nickels convened a summit on gun violence, bringing together local and federal police agencies with researchers and experts. Some of the presentations focused on the public health costs of gun crimes and the so-called gun show loophole.

    Any attempt by a city or county to ban guns outright in public parks -- unless it exempted holders of permits to carry concealed weapons -- would be illegal under state law, which pre-empts local governments from enacting gun laws that are stricter than state codes, said Dave Workman, senior editor and Western bureau chief for Gun Week magazine.

    Those carrying a concealed handgun without a license would already be illegal, he said.

    State pre-emption was intended to prevent confusion over having a variety of different gun laws, depending on which city or county you were in.

    "This business at Folklife is the only time I've heard of some guy with a concealed pistol license doing something like that," he said. "Usually with these shootings, if you look at them, they're 19 or 20 years old, and they're not even old enough to be licensed to carry a concealed pistol."



    M D "Doc" Nugent - carcentric.com
  •  06-11-2008, 12:09 PM 77993 in reply to 77986

    Re: Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

    Does Washington state issue permits to people with drug problems? The article indicated that his mental illness wasn't the kind that would keep him from getting a permit....ok, but the guy was in a methadone program....hello?????? These programs are generally because someone is addicted to  opiates such as heroin or morphine....

    I don't think further restrictions of where a concealed handgun can be carried is the solution, but I don't know that I have a better answer either.....If I was a citizen of Seattle, I would certainly do my best to get that idiot Nickels out of office though....he seems really anti-gun.....


    "We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein
  •  06-11-2008, 1:04 PM 77999 in reply to 77993

    Re: Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

    Part of the application form asks if you have a mental disorder (or are being treated for one, I don't remember which for sure), but if you lie and there's no court order on record determining you to be insane . . . .

    M D "Doc" Nugent - carcentric.com
  •  06-11-2008, 1:13 PM 78002 in reply to 77999

    Re: Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

    When are people going to wake up to the fact that "gun free zones" are "free kill zones"?

    It's interesting that because he was ankle carrying, when he reached for his gun, it tipped off his intended victim, who was able to wrestle him down and prevent more damage than was actually caused. Other people responded correctly by holding him down. Ankle carry made it possible, and that's why it's a bad idea for primary carry. 

    We don't know what his intentions were. The bystanders who opted to shed their sheep's clothing and take action may have prevented another mass shooting in a public gathering place. But the mayor seems to be of the opinion that city property should remain a free kill zone.

    This fellow will lose his permit and his guns and his freedom, and he should. But he should be the one who pays, not the rest of Seattle's permit holders.  

    Washington, D.C., Chicago, IL, and Seattle, WA are all free kill zones. There are many others across America. Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City is still a free kill zone. The blood has been mopped up and cleaned away, the bullet holes patched up and painted over. The broken glass has been replaced. The dead have been mourned and buried. The wounded have recovered, or are recovering, or may never recover. Much effort has gone into repairing the damage and presenting the facade that nothing has changed at Trolley Square. And nothing has. It's still a free kill zone. 

    People are still going to kill other people. They don't need guns to do it. Taking all the guns away, like they did in Japan, is not going to prevent people from killing other people. Look at the case of the wacko who drove a 2 ton truck into a pedestrian zone because he knew no one else would be armed with an automobile. He ran over more than a dozen people, then leapt from the vehicle and retraced his path, finishing off his victims with a knife. Horrified onlookers, like sheep, looked on in bewilderment and terror, apparently expecting or hoping that a sheepdog would come along and vanquish this big bad wolf who had suddenly appeared in their midst.

    We all, like sheep, have gone astray.  

     


    p-t-max

    I'm no expert, I'm just, well---opinionated!

    http://blog648.blogspot.com/





  •  06-11-2008, 1:42 PM 78010 in reply to 77993

    Re: Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

    Americangirl01:

    Does Washington state issue permits to people with drug problems? The article indicated that his mental illness wasn't the kind that would keep him from getting a permit....ok, but the guy was in a methadone program....hello?????? These programs are generally because someone is addicted to  opiates such as heroin or morphine....

     

    The guy must have thought that since he was on methadone he didn't have a drug problem, he had a drug solution. The permitting form must not ask anything about drug solutions.

    Doesn't schizophrenia interfere with your ability to determine if sensory input is real  (external ) or originating in your mind? Hard to believe that an individual could get a concealed carry permit with that kind of condition (unless the treating physician vouched for the man ). A couple of missed meds, and we've got ourselves a situation. It'd be easy to forget that kind of thing if you're on a methadone high.


    "Therefore every time you kill a beast of prey, you should feel as though your own bones are being crushed and you are preparing to die with it, laughing in the face of death. That's the attitude of a true hunter."

    Shosan - 17th century samurai/monk
  •  06-11-2008, 5:22 PM 78049 in reply to 78010

    Re: Schizo in Seattle had a CC permit

    I worked with schizophrenic people and know how unpredictable they can be even when medicated,and i would not have issued any kind of weapons permit to him no matter what.

    JC40

    Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat,for it is momentary.



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