:: Bersa Talk ::

I obviously have a maverick 88 12 guage shot gun.  With the different ammo selection available for shot gun would it be an ideal for when SHTF.  I just can't see myself toating the full sized barrel I curently have so I've been eyeing a shot barrel 12 guage (also maverick I believe) that comes with both a pistol grip and the butt stock.  Is the short barrel a no,no for survival, I know it brings down range, and acuracy, and the shot spead becomes wide in a hurry from what I hear.  I like the reduced wieght and faster pointability of the short barrel, but for survival is this a shot in the foot.  What about slugs, they are both smooth barels, what is the effect on rifled slugs as you know it.

Look forward to hearing from you guys, and thanks for your thoughts on the matter. 

---

If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

Can't you just buy a short barrel for your gun.    Now heres my take you would need a gun smith that knows what he doing.  Use a short barrel with the screw in chokes .

 Now a shot gun takes between 18 to 21" of barrel  for shot to reach max FPS .  After that nothing gained.. The long barrels are left over from black powder days and people have kept using them and teaching others.  Remington came out with a 21" field gun several years back. It requires you to learn the quicker swing and put up with all the old times telling you your wrong . Must have long barrel to hunt. I have shot rabbit dove and other with a 20" double with mod and inproved  chokes. Knocked a crow off fence post at 84 paces with that shot gun.

I still see no need for a pistol grip on a shot gun back or front.

So try to buy a 2nd barrel  Slugs will shoot fine from 18"  They used to sell a stick on rear sight  to help you shoot slugs. Like a old rifle sight adjustable foe elevation . New sabot slugs 150 yds.

Now draw back to a shot gun  Ammo heavy  to carry and  slow on reload  

I keep  #6 shot   00buck and slugs  on hand.   I used to keep #4 buck but read to many police reports  of failed to stop . I belive most departments have went back to 00 buck

 

---

Bersa Thunder,
PPK/S,
1990 Colt Mustang,
380 Kel Tec
380's Rule

"Just say "Lay A Way"

"WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

"Hokey religions and plastic glocks are no match for a good 1911 at your side, kid."

The shotgun I was looking at is $225, I figured it would be better than buying a new barrel.  I have a friend from church who needs a shotgun (every one needs a shot gun) so I figured I'd sell him my old one to make up the difference for the new one.  Get a new gun and help a friend, it's a win win situation.  As for the pistol grip, that would be for in home use only, i agree it wouldn't be any good for survival puposes especialy the front, I fail to see the advantage there. 

Thanks for the info on the barrel length, I thought I was going to get hit over the head by some one with the long one on this one, ouch, LOL

The ammo wieght is a little concern, but I figure on less shooting with a shot gun.  I could be figuring wrong, the only rifle i have is a 22lr should I think about an upgrade there as well, or is 22lr and a 12guage adequate.  I should think about a good rifle I suppose but we will address that next time.

---

If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

Oh, I mesured it off, the one i was looking at is going to be 18".  I want to ask agian will a rifled slug stablize well in a smooth barrel over that short a distance. I will probably lean towards buck/bird shot, but i'm just curious.  Also what about fps for the short barrel, will distance with a slug suffer noticably/drasticly.

---

If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

The pistol grip just sucks, indoors or out. I have a Maverick with the 20" barrel and full length magazine and when I dumped the pistol grip for a real stock it changed my whole attitude about the gun. You will get full velocity from an 18-20 inch barrel. The spread also does not really go very wide either at SD/HD distances either. Yes your slugs will be just fine in that length barrel. Like michael t said, you could modify it for chokes but I don't see the need really, especially for social work.

---

You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale

Is the pistol grip really that bad.  I've hear it hutrs like nothing else, but it makes for a compact design.  Never actually shot a 12 guage with a pistol grip but I can definately imagine I wouldn't like it much from my experience with shotguns.  The only reason I thought it would be a good Idea for the home is mobility.  I figured I could just deal with the pain and any lack in acuracy due the pistol grip would be moot at the one bedroom distances.  I can definitely see your point though, If I can get a discount without the pistol grip I'll probably take it.  Though I would like to give it a try, probably not more than once or twice.

---

If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

My 12 is a Remington 870 express magnum with 28" vent rib barrel.  I've looked and looked and I can't find an 18-20" barrel that's vent rib.  I'm thinking that even if I did, it would cost more than another shotgun.  Seen some of the black short barreled 12s for under $250.00 on sale and a new Remington barrel is about $225.00. 

My other long gun is a .22lr.  My preference had been the shotgun for a lot of years and the wifes 20ga started looking mighty good because of it's shorter barrel and lite weight, but when I got the .22, I knew that it's what I needed as a survival gun for the bush.  I can carry 250 rounds and they don't weigh much more than a box of shotgun shells.  They take up about the same amount of room too.  Not to mention that I can stack 17 rounds in the tube and 1 up the pipe on the .22 and will be more accurate than the shotgun out to 100 yards and the bullet will have lots of poop left when it hits it's mark.

---

I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.

I figured I could just deal with the pain and any lack in acuracy due the pistol grip would be moot at the one bedroom distances.

 The "lack of acuracy " isn't moot at bedroom distance.  You will miss  !!!!!   Spread is approx  1" per yard  .  Not 1 foot .   Shooting from hip with a pistol grip under stress  will likely be a miss or a poor hit.

 If you have a fullstock  and you MUST shoot from hip . You can tuck stock against side Locking it in place with your arm. Now you have a controlable weapon ( 3 points of contact )close to same length  that with practice can be fired with some degree of acuracy. Against a pistol grip that hurts and because its just held two handed is not as stable.  My way your body becomes  a turrent by mearly turning at the hip you can cover a wider area and control the gun better. Other way hands are holding and on swing may over swing..  

If shot gun is to be used for a survial weapon then must be able to do many jobs  Self defence in home is just one . .

A 22 rifle and a shotgun are a start on surival  guns.  22 should be a mag fed semi auto  like a ruger 10/22 Lots of aftermarket support.  I have a 40mm 4x scope on mine Makes a  world of difference  over a 22 scope  and isn't all that expensive.  1/2 dozen Ruger 10 round mags and a couple of the  banana  jobs. (Not a 100% relieable in my experiance)  That why the Ruger mags with quick release mag release.

Any 22 rifle will do in a pinch But tube type are slower to reload and if tube is damaged  you have a problem  I say that after just picking up a Rossi 22 pump rifle in trade.

 

It times of trouble  22 , 223, 7.62X39  30/30  12 guage and maybe 20  are going to be the easy ones to find.     22 ,380 ,38spl ,357, 9mm and 45 in handgun ammo  Other calibers might be harder to locate   In rifles depending on where you live might be a  more common Caliber in you area.  Out west  they shoot longer distance than we do back east  So say 270 or 30/06 might be more common.

 

---

Bersa Thunder,
PPK/S,
1990 Colt Mustang,
380 Kel Tec
380's Rule

"Just say "Lay A Way"

"WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

"Hokey religions and plastic glocks are no match for a good 1911 at your side, kid."

MikLaw:

My 12 is a Remington 870 express magnum with 28" vent rib barrel.  I've looked and looked and I can't find an 18-20" barrel that's vent rib.  I'm thinking that even if I did, it would cost more than another shotgun.  Seen some of the black short barreled 12s for under $250.00 on sale and a new Remington barrel is about $225.00. 

Why do you need the vent rib in the smaller barrel?  A standard 18inch barrel should go on a 870 express.  (atleast it does on mine).  I have two barrels the long for the dove and the short for the Zombies.  I googled and saw a "bubba" kit with a 18 inch barrel and pistol grip conversion for around 140.  I think I found my 18inch barrel at a show for under a 100.

Also, the best thing I have found that improved my accuracy (clays mind you ...  ) is a riffle sight.  ATI sell this metal contraption that wraps around your barrel and has pressure screws that hold it in, it works well with me.  I can get a sight picture on clays alot faster than using the "little neon tubes" at the end of a barrel.  Which mean I shoot better.  The gun looks kind of funny with it on there (kind of bubba'd) but it works...

DD

 The "lack of acuracy " isn't moot at bedroom distance.  You will miss  !!!!!   Spread is approx  1" per yard  .  Not 1 foot .   Shooting from hip with a pistol grip under stress  will likely be a miss or a poor hit.

 If you have a fullstock  and you MUST shoot from hip . You can tuck stock against side Locking it in place with your arm. Now you have a controlable weapon ( 3 points of contact )close to same length  that with practice can be fired with some degree of acuracy. Against a pistol grip that hurts and because its just held two handed is not as stable.  My way your body becomes  a turrent by mearly turning at the hip you can cover a wider area and control the gun better. Other way hands are holding and on swing may over swing..  

If shot gun is to be used for a survial weapon then must be able to do many jobs  Self defence in home is just one . .

Great points, against the pistol grip.  I guess I'm still fighting the movie conditioning of the cool pistol grip shot gun.  Like I said the one I am looking at comes with both in one package, I don't have to choose.  I looked at the other short barrels around and the price is beyond my means at this time.  I could just get a barrel but I have been quite satisfied with the reliability of the maverick, esecialy for the price.  I haven't had any problems with mine and niether did my uncle who had it for quite a while before he gave it to me.

since the pistol grip is a gimme, I may pass it off to a friend and get a little more back on my purchase.  no doubt your right on this but unless I get a discout without the pistol grip I'm not going to pass.

I have a remington 597, I like the gun but the mags are crap.  I've got two that feed 8 rounds reliably and one that barely gets 5. Anyone know of a cure, they are all 3rd gen., supposedly the best ones as I've heard.  Should I dump the rifle for a better model (10/22) or just deal with it.  I like the concept of the Henry survival rifle, but I hear it has problems.  What do you guys know about this(probably should have made a new thread).

---

If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

My buddy has a Saiga 12 gauge with pistol grip I like the pistol grip on it it gives that shotgun a good feel IMO. I have also shot a few Mossberg 500s the one with butt stock I had more control with then the Mossberg with the pistol grip it was kickin up pretty hard 

---

Bullzeye24
Bersa Thunder 380 DT
GP WASR 10/63 AK-47

Well when I get it I will give a short review on my opinion of the shotgun with and without the pistol grip.  I'll  put it under the general section.  I'm going to put the .22 question there now so if you have any advice send it over there please, I'm a little conflicted on the matter.

I could see one advantage of the pistol grip, that is conceilment.  Under certant SHTF situations I could see this as being an asset, but the butt stock would definately be in my pack.

---

If you do not know what your rights are, you do not have them.

I have a 19" Saiga 12 for my SHTF shottie, 10 round clips, but I'm leaving it stock, except for the limsaver recoil pad, and the poly choke, no pistol grip.

There are 20 round drums, but don't want the feds knocking on my door, and it is heavy enough with 10 rounds, besides, if they are that close, and I can't handle business with 10 rds of 00, I'm probably dead anyhow.