:: Bersa Talk ::

OAKLAND PARK, Fla. (AP)

The Broward Sheriff's Office says the shooting followed an
argument over a ``very minor crash'' Thursday in Oakland Park.

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According to a sheriff's report, 28-year-old David Figueroa's
car rear-ended a white van. Figueroa and the other driver got into
an argument after stopping their vehicles. Witnesses told deputies
that Figueroa attacked the other man, who tried retreating to his
van. The van's driver reached his gun and fired at Figueroa.

Figueroa was pronounced dead at a hospital. Authorities say the
50-year-old driver of the van has a valid state permit for his gun.

Sheriff's detectives are investigating. No charges have been
filed.

I'm sorry but that jibberish shows up in the post but doesn't show up when i try to edit it out.

pocketauto:

OAKLAND PARK, Fla. (AP)

The Broward Sheriff's Office says the shooting followed an
argument over a ``very minor crash'' Thursday in Oakland Park.

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');

According to a sheriff's report, 28-year-old David Figueroa's
car rear-ended a white van. Figueroa and the other driver got into
an argument after stopping their vehicles. Witnesses told deputies
that Figueroa attacked the other man, who tried retreating to his
van. The van's driver reached his gun and fired at Figueroa.

Figueroa was pronounced dead at a hospital. Authorities say the
50-year-old driver of the van has a valid state permit for his gun.

Sheriff's detectives are investigating. No charges have been
filed.

Well, if I were being assautled/attacked and forced to retreat to my vehicle  for safety (as the witness stories document) I would surely defend myself as best I could and take the threat out of the picture, as that is what the law states that I am allowed to do if the threat is that immediate. If the witneses are on the side of the van driver, indicating that he was retreating and threatened, he has solid ground to stand on. 

Yeah, the guy rear ended him, then attacked him, chased him back into his van? I reckon it was most likely clean. Particularly with witnesses to the fact, I don't think he should be worried.

If you are forced to shoot a dirtbag in a situation like that, does his insurance still pay?

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You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale

Sounds clean.  Of course, if the liberals get a hold of it....

An armed murderer gunned down a young man suffering from impulse control disorder and aggressive response syndrome, explosive(***).

CNN will report it as a crime against humanity.

---

"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses
both." --Dwight D. Eisenhower

parrothead_madness:

If you are forced to shoot a dirtbag in a situation like that, does his insurance still pay?

Could ya add some ammo to the claim?

---

Whining is for little girls, babies, mommy’s boys and girly men.
SNIVELING? Now that’s an art form!

FS22
BT380dlx; P3AT; PPK
Beretta 92FS; CX4 Storm
BT45 UC; FS 1911 DLX; Colt M1991A1; DW Bobtail
Taurus 38UL
CZ fnh Modell 27 WWII Luftwaffe issued to Hauptman Jaeduvel
+ old family guns

The original article states that the driver of the car pummeled the driver of the van, chasing him back to the van before he was shot.There were several witnesses at the scene who gave statements to the police supporting the driver of the van so he should be all right.

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JC40

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat,for it is momentary.



Mini Firestorm .40
Sig Sauer P220
CZ Rami .40
S&W Airweight 38 spl
Taurus PT111 9mm
Pheonix arms .22

I wouldn't have to be chased back to my vehicle to get my pistol.  A 28-year-old versus a 50-year-old?  Sounds like the possibility of serious bodily injury to me.

The only problem I see is that if the older man could get to his van, he maybe could have closed and locked the door and separated himself from the attacker.  But perhaps that wasn't possible.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt.

We don't really know enough facts to make a judgment.  Pure speculation as to what happened.

Locking the doors might have been possible; pepper spray is another possibility.  Again, speculation.

Hope the guy has a good lawyer for the civil wrongful death case-at the least. 

Just because someone wants to punch you does not mean you are threatened with deadly force.  If you gesture to punch someone/tackle someone does that merit getting shot and killed in the process?  If it does, there's gonna be a lot of killing going on.

Most states require that you be threatened in such a manner as to be in immediate fear of death or grave bodily injury.

All I know is that I think of alternatives using less than lethal force.  What would a reasonable cop have done?  That might be a good barometer. 

If you attempt to swing at or motion to swing at a cop is he justified in shooting you dead right there?  Depends on the facts, as does this case. 

 

Bad thing is, you can be made unconsious and unable to pretect yourself with just one punch....do you take the chance of the person killing or causing grave harm to you afterwards by continuing to beat you...so many variables.

I would have to agree.If the guy is coming out of his vehicle all ready pissed and wanting to swing on you after he caused the accident,then something is wrong and the guy obviously has an anger problem and means to do you harm.Now if you have taken your handgun out of the holster and told the guy to stop and he keeps coming,it doesn`t take much to figure what this guys intentions are and you have the right to protect yourself from harm.

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JC40

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat,for it is momentary.



Mini Firestorm .40
Sig Sauer P220
CZ Rami .40
S&W Airweight 38 spl
Taurus PT111 9mm
Pheonix arms .22

Screaming at me is one thing.....but no human being alive has the right to pound on me with his/her fists.....I will do whatever is necessary to protect myself.

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"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." Albert Einstein

What ever happened to punching someone in the nose?  Or wrestling with them?  Such incidents are usually very short-lived and result in little injury or death.

Most men would RETREAT from such a situation, or get out and FIGHT LIKE A MAN, rather than bring out the gun and KILL the guy.  Seems like a bit of an escalation to me...stopping a possible battery, usually a misdemeanor, by killing someone.

Every time an incident such as this one happens it's more argument to take away gun rights-in particular, carrying one in the car.  You'll see...

When your only tool is a hammer, every situation looks like a nail.  Or whatever..

I have a large Magnalite in my car, pepper spray on my keychain (Fox 5.3), and my FISTS.  There's also the car door, windows, locks...if guy had time to go inside the vehicle and get his gun and come out again he might have a problem with the authorities.  I don't know if there's a duty to retreat law in Florida for such a situation or not.  He'd likely be charged with manslaughter in other jurisdictions.

Assuming the deceased was not carrying any thing that could be construed as a deadly weapon, this motorist may be in real hot water-maybe criminally, but certainly civilly...of course, depends on the facts, which we don't really know.

 

I too have a big Maglite under my seat....and I have more than one thing of pepper spray, one in my console and one on my key chain.....which does no good btw...if the keys are in the ignition.....and note that I said whatever is necessary to protect myself.....

Run into the back of my car and then punch me in the nose because I am upset about it, then see what happens.....you won't have the opportunity to do it to me again, and that is a promise..........

 

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"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." Albert Einstein

rumblefish:

What ever happened to punching someone in the nose?  Or wrestling with them?  Such incidents are usually very short-lived and result in little injury or death.

Most men would RETREAT from such a situation, or get out and FIGHT LIKE A MAN, rather than bring out the gun and KILL the guy.  Seems like a bit of an escalation to me...stopping a possible battery, usually a misdemeanor, by killing someone.

Every time an incident such as this one happens it's more argument to take away gun rights-in particular, carrying one in the car.  You'll see...

When your only tool is a hammer, every situation looks like a nail.  Or whatever..

I have a large Magnalite in my car, pepper spray on my keychain (Fox 5.3), and my FISTS.  There's also the car door, windows, locks...if guy had time to go inside the vehicle and get his gun and come out again he might have a problem with the authorities.  I don't know if there's a duty to retreat law in Florida for such a situation or not.  He'd likely be charged with manslaughter in other jurisdictions.

Assuming the deceased was not carrying any thing that could be construed as a deadly weapon, this motorist may be in real hot water-maybe criminally, but certainly civilly...of course, depends on the facts, which we don't really know.

 

We don't really know enough facts to make a judgment

 

1. 28 year old vs 50 year old not a fair match.  The older guy could have a heart condition in which he is not going to last in a fight or while he is reaching for his nitro med to take he could get the heck beat out of him. If your a hot head that goes after someone instead of letting cops handle accident then you also take your life into your own hands especially in this day in age. after all he was the one that rear ended that guy .As you stated we don't really know enough facts to make a jugment.

Jeff

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Maybe. But not today........Indiana Jones