:: Bersa Talk ::

There was a thread in Tech about some +P+ Ranger ammo that is labeled "For law enforcement only. Not for retail sale. Pressure levels exceed industry standards. Use only in pistols."
Royce mentioned possibly having to explain your use and posession of this ammo. I have an entire case of Federal SG shells labeled "For law enforcement use only", but I bought it as a civilian, legally I assume, from a reputable dealer. I have also had a fair amount of pistol ammo over the years labeled similarly, all purchased above board.
So, is this stuff really restricted? Is it a marketing thing from the manufacturers to make us think we have something better? Is it legal for it to be sold to us?

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By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as "The Beast." - Dale

No.  "Law enforcement only" is Winchester company policy only.  There is no law (of which I'm aware) prohibiting civilian use of law enforcement ammo.

As for explaining it... if it's good enough for law enforcement, then it's certainly acceptable for civilian use.  All the safeguards are already built in... it's reliable enough for law enforcement duty, so it's safer for the user; it certainly can't be considered inhumane or "exotic", lest LE be faced with several lawsuits; it has gone through stricter quality control; it has low-flash propellants; better accuracy; more thoroughly tested; more consistent round per round; more reliable expansion; etc etc etc.

It's easy to get "law enforcement only" ammo over the counter... ammoman.com sells a lot of it for one.  The Federal LE-132 12ga buckshot is sold at gun shows.  Etc.

No problems.

John

P.S. Standard disclaimer... I am not a lawyer.  Laws in your jurisdiction may vary.  Yadda yadda yadda.

That pretty much follows what I have always thought Bullwinkle.
Incidently, that case of shells came from ammoman. It was an impulse buy when I was there picking up an order of 9mm and he gave it to me cheap, I couldnt resist. Being able to buy from him FTF is one of the few things I miss about Jersey. That and cheesesteaks. And you can't get a decent pizza on the left coast. Now I'm hungry.

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By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as "The Beast." - Dale

Hey, I didn't mean to insinuate that it was a violation of any Law, all though if you get caught in Illinois with their ammunition that is for State Patrol only, trust me there is a statute.

As for most of the ammunition, and most states, there is no legal problem, what I was leading to was the problem of having to do damage control in a civil suit that you could face, so why take the risk?

All Remington Gold Saber is loaded to LE Specs and not labeled that way, to avoid this problem.

Sorry if I was misunderstood, I hope this helps to correct any problems.

Thanks,

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C. Royce Honeycutt
Master Gunsmith
Master Firearms Instructor
Bersa Warranty Center

No worries. I am not even a little surprised to hear that about Illinois.

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By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as "The Beast." - Dale

Yeah, and I think the remington golden saber is just a more expensive version of the remington umc 230 gr jhp from walmart. same expansion way cheaper for sd. very reliable. that's what i use in my 45s.
toni

ColoradoGunWorksGunsmith:

 all though if you get caught in Illinois with their ammunition that is for State Patrol only, trust me there is a statute.

Sounds like there might be a good story hiding in there just waiting to be told

Bronson

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"Each new generation born is in effect an invasion of civilization by little barbarians, who must be civilized before it is too late." T. Sowell.
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Bersa Thunder .380
Browning HiPower
Kahr CW40
Kel-Tec P-32
Ruger Mark II
Ruger GP100

ColoradoGunWorksGunsmith:

All Remington Gold Saber is loaded to LE Specs and not labeled that way, to avoid this problem.

The Sheriff's Department here in El Paso County, Texas, prescribes Golden Saber for on-duty as well as off-duty carry.  If it's good enough for them...

I agree completly with Royce.  If you don't HAVE to purchase LE ammo, yet get the same results,  why place yourself in the position of having to explain the possetion and use of LE ammo (ie excessive use of force) when you don't have to.  In some respects, Civil law can be more dangerous then Criminal law.

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"Any gun will do, If you will do" Dr. Ignatius Piazza

Bersa 9UC (my daily carry)
Bersa .380 CC
Sig 226 9mm
CZ 75 Compact 9mm
CZ 75 P 06 .40
Colt New Agent .45 acp
Llama Mini Max .380
Rock Island 1911 .45
Makarov 1961 East German

bobbbby1:

use of LE ammo (ie excessive use of force)

Oh? I didn't know law enforcement agencies condoned the use of excessive force by their officers, and supplied them with tools to aid in that excessive force. Puh-leeze!

John

I agree with Bullwinkle, much ado about nothing.

I understand the civil risks, but if you beat a criminal that breaks into your home with a wet noodle, some ambulance chaser is going to try to take everything you own.  Ask for a jury trial.

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http://www.yourweapons.com/

A simple question, how many of the nay sayers out there in these threads have actually been involved in a civil suit resulting from a use of force incident? Let those who have speak from the wisdom of experience, not from the folly of ignorence.

It dosn't have to be a "deadly force" case, any suit from use of force, civil, not being arrested for getting in a fight.

Let's here it people???????

Anyone?

Anyone?

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C. Royce Honeycutt
Master Gunsmith
Master Firearms Instructor
Bersa Warranty Center