:: Bersa Talk ::

I liked that 300 yd test. When I was a kid we used on ground hogs at 100 yds a lot. Some where from that time till today a 22 became a 50 yd round I never under stood that, In 80 's my car survial rifle was a 10/22 Ruger with a scope and several 10 and couple 30 rond mags.  I still have a AR -7 in truck.

I have went to 223 as all around, But really you will shoot more tree rats and ground hogs than deer in a SHTF.  Also remember getting shot by any round in troubled times with no medical attention can be end of you.

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Bersa Thunder,
PPK/S,
1990 Colt Mustang,
380 Kel Tec
380's Rule

"Just say "Lay A Way"

"WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

"Hokey religions and plastic glocks are no match for a good 1911 at your side, kid."

I would go with both the .22 LR and the 30-30 for the simple reason that  I HAVE a .22LR and a 30-30

Bronson

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"Each new generation born is in effect an invasion of civilization by little barbarians, who must be civilized before it is too late." T. Sowell
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Thunder .380
Browning HiPower
Kahr CW40
Kel-Tec P32
Ruger MK I
Ruger GP100
S&W 60

Good reason!

michael t:

I liked that 300 yd test. When I was a kid we used on ground hogs at 100 yds a lot. Some where from that time till today a 22 became a 50 yd round I never under stood that, In 80 's my car survial rifle was a 10/22 Ruger with a scope and several 10 and couple 30 rond mags.  I still have a AR -7 in truck.

I have went to 223 as all around, But really you will shoot more tree rats and ground hogs than deer in a SHTF.  Also remember getting shot by any round in troubled times with no medical attention can be end of you.

 

1st  Like I said before, MT would shoot it then call me to dress it out! 

2nd Luckily MT knows he would get medical attention as well!

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Preparedness is our best defense

Do not bear unfairness

gb_in_tx:

Actually, .357 Mag can be loaded with heavier bullets than .30-30, up to 200 grains, and I think you can get them even heavier.  It helps if you are a handloader.  It loses out because it doesn't get the same velocity.  But, within the effective range of 150 yards or less, either one will get the job done.

Found the relevant info. This is .357 data from the Buffalo Bore site:

"Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!"

Where .357 Mag stands out from .30-30 in a SHTF scenario regarding 2 legged issues is in magazine capacity.  Remember, reloading a lever gun isn't real fast -- 1 round at a time through the loading gate.  So, if you were going to be getting into a firefight you'd be better off with more "bangs" before reloading.

True, but somewhat mitigated by the ability to stuff rounds in the gate during momentary lulls. Same idea with a shotgun - you can plug in additional shells before the mag is empty. OTOH, if you find yourself in a situation where you're emptying a lever gun mag in self-defense, you're probably in it so deep you probably shouldn't have gone there to begin with.

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Definition of a troll: Anyone who dares express an opinion at odds with mine.

Found the relevant info. This is .357 data from the Buffalo Bore site:

"Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!"

Yes, but WHICH .30-30 loads?  It makes a world of difference.
I expect their claim of such will last only until they release their corresponding .30-30 loads, which, if you'll notice on their site, are not yet released.  Let's compare their 158 gr .357 Mag load with their 150 gr .30-30 load when that is finally released, I think you'll find the comparative energy levels reversed.  "Typical" .357 Mag loads (even those intended for carbine/rifle use) do not have the "energy" of "Typical" .30-30 loads given corresponding bullet weights.  Comparing "knife edge" Buffalo Bore loads to "Typical" loads of undisclosed bullet weights is comparing apples to oranges.  Note also that they are pointing at a couple of lighter bullet loads, which always have higher energy values than heavier bullet loads.  Could it be that they are comparing the energy values of high energy light bullet .357 Mag loads to the energy values of low energy heavy bullet .30-30 loads?  It wouldn't surprise me.  In summary, I take comparative energy and velocity claims that come from BB's site with a grain of salt.

True, but somewhat mitigated by the ability to stuff rounds in the gate during momentary lulls.

Quite True.  Actually, I understand that the LONG TERM rate of fire of a tubular magazine lever action rifle is actually higher than that of a detachable box magazine fed autoloader rifle, once the on-hand loaded magazines of the box magazine rifle have been expended.  Meaning, rate of fire given a plentiful supply of loose ammo.  The reason is that it takes more time to feed rounds into a box magazine and then feed the loaded magazine into the rifle than it does to just slip rounds into the feed gate of a tube magazine.  That, and there isn't the issue of having to unload a partially depleted magazine in order to top off a tube magazine rifle -- meaning, in case of surprise while topping off you can still immediately return fire with your partially loaded, currently being reloaded magazine where you can't with the box magazine fed autoloader -- you have to reinsert the mag before you can return fire.  Tubular magazine "Shoot 1, Reload 1" rate of fire isn't all that fast, but it is maintainable for as long as you have ammo.

Then again, what I was comparing was the difference between 2 tube mag arms.  Given similarly effecitve rounds and a higher capacity tube mag vs a lower capacity tube mag in a fire fight, I'll pick the higher capacity, simply because it will allow me to, over a short period of time, lay down a heavier volume of fire without having to reload.  Or, it will allow me to lay down a constant volume of fire for a longer period of time without having to pause or slow down for reloading.  Then again, if you maintain the "Shoot 1, Reload 1" drill, there is no difference in sustained rate of fire.

OTOH, if you find yourself in a situation where you're emptying a lever gun mag in self-defense, you're probably in it so deep you probably shouldn't have gone there to begin with.

In an ideal world, yes.  In the icky world of having to make do with what you have in an SHTF situation, you don't get to make that call.  You don't get to choose all of your battles.  Especially if you are having to stand your ground because you have no alternative, protecting yourself and your loved ones from trouble that came seeking you out.

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I'm one and the same as gb_in_ga, so add a bit over 900 to my post count...

gb_in_tx:

In the icky world of having to make do with what you have in an SHTF situation, you don't get to make that call.

Just curious - how many Zombies per square foot in this hypothetical icky world?

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Definition of a troll: Anyone who dares express an opinion at odds with mine.

And would a headshot from a 22 do enough damage to said Zombie head to incapacitate it?

I started this thread because currently I was trying to determine which to focus on stocking up for between a 30-30 lever, Mini14 and a Ruger 10-22, just in case (SHTF). Or if I'd be better off picking up a bolt action .308 or posibly something like an AK47 for a larger round to supplement the 22.

Thanks for the feedback.

Focusing on reality, I have a hard time narrowing it to one rifle.
Many will disagree with me I'm sure but in order of usefulness vs. likelyhood of need I think in this order:

1) A good .22 rifle and a go-zillion rounds to go with it.
2) A bolt action rifle, I prefer scoped, but not necessary. 30-06 or .308 and a goodly supply of rounds.
3) An "EBR" and  a metric assload of .223, just in case the zombies do show up (or just for fun).

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You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale

fcoy2:

And would a headshot from a 22 do enough damage to said Zombie head to incapacitate it?

I started this thread because currently I was trying to determine which to focus on stocking up for between a 30-30 lever, Mini14 and a Ruger 10-22, just in case (SHTF). Or if I'd be better off picking up a bolt action .308 or posibly something like an AK47 for a larger round to supplement the 22.

Thanks for the feedback.

you hear this question a lot.  There is no good answer to it. there are some bad answers but no way to reall settle on the best round for any purpose.  Ruger 10-22's are cheep so is .22 and the clips are a dime a dozen.  if you want to answer this question on a budget, get 2 Ruger 10-22's 10+ clips for each and buy 10 bricks on ammo.

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Will hunt for food

its bow season, my neck has swelled up and I keep kicking up carpet and leaving my scent.

I was thinking the same thing. Lever action 30-30 is nice, but is somewhat limited in range and (based on what I've read) ballistics.

I was thinking the same thing. Lever action 30-30 is nice, but is somewhat limited in range and (based on what I've read) ballistics.

It all depends on what you are intending to do with it.  Your situation may be that it is too limited.  If you live in an area where there is lots of wide open spaces, or where you may find yourself shooting across ravines, or where you may find yourself needing to take down game larger than deer -- then yes, you are right.

But, if you live somewhere like in the East Texas Piney Woods -- where you can't see any farther than about 100 yards anyway, and there's nothing much larger than whitetail deer and the occasional feral hog, then .30-30 is just fine.

Keep in mind that .30-30 is ballistically similar to .357 Magnum in a rifle.  It is also similar to 7.62x39 Russian.  In particular, that russian round.  And I happen to feel that a SKS (of course, chambered in 7.62x39) with a stockpile of ammo (in stripper clips) is a pretty darned good stock-up and set aside for SHTF purposes rifle.  It'll be there when you need it, and it'll get done what you need getting done.  Other than it is just too useful and fun to be set aside, you can say the same thing about a lever action .30-30.  Well, other than I'd like more capacity in the tubular magazine.  That's one reason why I lean towards .357 Mag in the lever gun, for that purpose.

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I'm one and the same as gb_in_ga, so add a bit over 900 to my post count...

30-06 in my opinion.  take small game or big, depending on bullet.  It is proven and respected.  Sometimes , the classics are still the best.

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses
both." --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Hi ,
I am new to the group but I have hunted for many years.  I would go with 22 Mag .  Years ago when they were still legal in Michigan for hunting I successfully hunted deer with a 22 LR.  Shot placement was essential.  Then I got a 22 Mag for Xmas.  I 've seen a 22mag with hollowpoints punch through and shatter a front shoulder blade, rib,front shoulder, and rib knocking the front legs right out from under a deer. Although it didn't kill it on the first shot it wasn't going anywhere.  The second shot finnished the job.  My perfered placement is a well placed shot
right behind the ear ...works really nice.

They are light weight ,relatively inexpensive, have some range and you can carry a lot of rounds easily.

I wouldn't hessitate to use it in SHTF.


Cowboy727
Michigan

Ruger Single Six 22 mag
Winchester LVRA 22mag
Numerous shotguns and Rifles
Soon to purchase a BT9uc/or HC and BT380

My preference is the .270.  I also have an 30.06 and 30-30, I just like the .270 better (single shot NEF).  I guess if I could only take one with me in a SHF situation it would be the Marlin model 60 .22 and a gazillion rounds.

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Only today counts