:: Bersa Talk ::

I know there are going to be lots of opinions on the best rifle, but what do you think would be the best rifle round for survival purposes if you had to pick only one? Consider hunting and the possibility of bringing down a two-legged foe. I've been doing a little reading on the subject and have found a few different opinions. According to Boston's Gun Bible it would be the .308, for it's range, power and accuracy.

Any thoughts?

In a survival situation you need the most common round you can scavenge. 

My list:

30-06 (Good enough for Grandad!)

308

7.62X39  (I have waaaaay more of this than anything. A good SKS (Yugo, russian) would be a formidable survival rifle. More accurate than most AKs.)

223

If you are a reloader the .308 is a very versatile round, from lightweight bullets for small game,  and heavy weight for larger.

My personal favorite is the M-1 Carbine, using 110 gr softpoint.  I like the carbine because of the light weight, low recoil, and in my hands I am very accurate with it. 

MT is going to disagree with me of course, he likes the AR 15 and the 223 cal.

Conner

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Preparedness is our best defense

Do not bear unfairness

If you are a reloader the .308 is a very versatile round, from lightweight bullets for small game,  and heavy weight for larger.

Agreed.  Way back when, when I actually had a rifle, it was a .308 and yes, I did reload for it.  Just like you said.  A similar round that isn't common anymore is .300 Savage.  Somewhat less performance on the top end yet still plenty enough for taking medium game like deer.

.30-30 doesn't have as much punch on the top end, but the rifles that it is chambered in are so darned handy that you've just about got to have it on your list.  Just as long as the game isn't too large, and the range isn't too far.  Again, if you are a reloader you can do wonders with it -- load it way down with cast bullets and it makes a fine small game getter.  It makes me want to go get one.

On a similar platform with the .30-30 there's also the rifle chamberings of the .357 Magnum.  As long as the range isn't long (150 yards is about as far as I'd push it) and the game isn't any bigger than deer, this is actually a really good option and the one that I'm liable to get.  Especially to be considered is that you can share the same ammo -- or at least, the same reloading dies -- as with your .357 Magnum revolver.  This alone makes me want to go get one, just to pair it up with the wheelgun that'd be on my hip.  Note also that these rifles will shoot .38 Spl too, just like their little wheelgun cousins.  Ovbiously, that means that they would be just dandy for taking small game and varmits.  And, being a .357 Mag, it'll do the job just dandy against 2 legged threats.  IIRC, the performance of a .357 Magnum from a carbine is pretty close to that of a .30 M-1 Carbine.  The more I think about it, from a survival standpoint, the more I like it.  One of those Marlin .357 Magnum lever action carbines is what I'd like to have.

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I'm one and the same as gb_in_ga, so add a bit over 900 to my post count...

I like the 5.56/.223 round, love the 06 and 308, but for all around practical survival round, I believe that I would go with the .22.  They come in a variety of flavors from short to long rifle, sub sonic to ultra sonic, some are practically noiseless so they don't alert possible enemies to the party and it even comes in a couple of sizes of shot.  Ammo is super inexpensive and is small and lite weight enough that if forced to the woods for long term, it can be carried in bulk.

Downside, range is limited and shot placement would be critical on larger game, but the little round will bring down deer sized game, as well as human adversaries if necessary.

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Make em sharp and shoot em straight, or leave em home.

I'm going with .22. You can store a whole lot with little space and need be, can travel with relative light weight. Also, it's practically everywhere!!

True it owuldn't be my first choice for SD but for vesatility in a SHTF situation, it'll do what it's supposed to.

Just remeber shot placement is key!!

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The mere invention of the flame thrower means that one day, someone said to themselves ,"You know i would really like to set those guys on fire, but they're all the way over there." ---George Carlin

I like the 30-06, you can get rounds from 55 gr all they to 220 for dangerous game. the 55 gr would be great for smaller game. while the 180 would work on deer and elk

 

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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

gb_in_tx:

On a similar platform with the .30-30 there's also the rifle chamberings of the .357 Magnum....  IIRC, the performance of a .357 Magnum from a carbine is pretty close to that of a .30 M-1 Carbine.  The more I think about it, from a survival standpoint, the more I like it.  One of those Marlin .357 Magnum lever action carbines is what I'd like to have.

I'm with you on the .357 lever gun, for the same reasons. I've seen at least one conversation on another forum which, in summary, said the .357 in a rifle was ballistically very close to the .30-.30. The .357 lost out to the .30-.30 in terminal energy because the .30-.30 throws a heavier bullet. I wouldn't want to be perforated by either one, nor, would I imagine, a deer.

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Warning: Poster not fully medicated!

Wouldn't SD be a relative high priority in a SHTF situation?  I would definitely want a more powerful round.  Even against opponents who didn't have firearms, but were armed with knives and clubs.  Especially multiple opponents with heavy clothing or improvised light personal armor (motorcycle helmets, for instance).

I understand that the .22 does have some advantages, but my choice is 7.62x39.

justboughtmyfirst:

I'm going with .22. You can store a whole lot with little space and need be, can travel with relative light weight. Also, it's practically everywhere!!

True it owuldn't be my first choice for SD but for vesatility in a SHTF situation, it'll do what it's supposed to.

Just remeber shot placement is key!!

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http://www.yourweapons.com/

Here's a test for the .22lr out to 300 yards.  It sure boosted my feelings about the .22s lethality on long shots. 

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

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Make em sharp and shoot em straight, or leave em home.

That certainly seems to establish penetration, but lethality?  Anecdotally, the consensus seems to be that .22cal rounds require a headshot to stop a human.  I don't doubt that some .22 cal wounds to locations other than the head might eventually be fatal, but how long would the aggressor be able to stay in the fight and continue to be a threat?

What happens if you shoot a 70-year-old man with a .22 cal?

"Moments after the shooting began, Reagan was whisked away by the Secret Service agents in the presidential limousine. At first, there was no realization that the President had been wounded; the bullet which struck him entered under his armpit. However, when Secret Service agent Jerry Parr checked him for gunshot wounds, Reagan coughed up bright, frothy blood, indicating that his lung was punctured. Reagan, already in great pain, believed that one of his ribs had cracked when agent Parr pushed him into the limousine (but really the lung was punctured by the bullet)."

"Parr ordered the motorcade to divert to nearby George Washington University Hospital. Upon arriving, Reagan wiped the blood from his face, exited the limousine and walked unassisted into the emergency room, where he complained of difficulty breathing and collapsed. He was admitted immediately for emergency surgery. Shortly before surgery to remove the bullet, which barely missed his heart, Reagan purportedly remarked to the operating doctor, "I hope you're a Republican." The head surgeon, liberal Democrat Joseph Giordano, purportedly replied, "Mr. President, today we are all Republicans." Reagan recovered quickly, despite being 70 years old, and was able to continue his presidential duties."

I guess we can agree to disagee!    And no, I don't want to let you shoot me with a .22...!  

MikLaw:

Here's a test for the .22lr out to 300 yards.  It sure boosted my feelings about the .22s lethality on long shots. 

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

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http://www.yourweapons.com/

The .357 lost out to the .30-.30 in terminal energy because the .30-.30 throws a heavier bullet. I wouldn't want to be perforated by either one, nor, would I imagine, a deer.

Actually, .357 Mag can be loaded with heavier bullets than .30-30, up to 200 grains, and I think you can get them even heavier.  It helps if you are a handloader.  It loses out because it doesn't get the same velocity.  But, within the effective range of 150 yards or less, either one will get the job done.

Where .357 Mag stands out from .30-30 in a SHTF scenario regarding 2 legged issues is in magazine capacity.  Remember, reloading a lever gun isn't real fast -- 1 round at a time through the loading gate.  So, if you were going to be getting into a firefight you'd be better off with more "bangs" before reloading.

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I'm one and the same as gb_in_ga, so add a bit over 900 to my post count...

in a survival, easy all purpose, cheap 500 rounds for 13 bucks, i agree with 22 long rifle. i deer hunt now with 270 130 gr. accurate at even long range, but doesn't knock em down, usually run a ways, i still have my first buck killer, a 30 30 marlin lever, collects dust for years but i cant seem to trade it. i had a 30.06 used 180 gr. knocked em for a loop/in there tracks, but old savage rifle kicked, after my third scope cut had to go.

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bersa thunder 380
taurus pt/7 pro cds .45acp
taurus pt 99 af 9mm para.
smith & wesson 22-S
4 rifles, 3 shotguns, 1 muzzleloader, 1 bow.
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Jay1958:

That certainly seems to establish penetration, but lethality?  Anecdotally, the consensus seems to be that .22cal rounds require a headshot to stop a human.  I don't doubt that some .22 cal wounds to locations other than the head might eventually be fatal, but how long would the aggressor be able to stay in the fight and continue to be a threat?

What happens if you shoot a 70-year-old man with a .22 cal?

"Moments after the shooting began, Reagan was whisked away by the Secret Service agents in the presidential limousine. At first, there was no realization that the President had been wounded; the bullet which struck him entered under his armpit. However, when Secret Service agent Jerry Parr checked him for gunshot wounds, Reagan coughed up bright, frothy blood, indicating that his lung was punctured. Reagan, already in great pain, believed that one of his ribs had cracked when agent Parr pushed him into the limousine (but really the lung was punctured by the bullet)."

"Parr ordered the motorcade to divert to nearby George Washington University Hospital. Upon arriving, Reagan wiped the blood from his face, exited the limousine and walked unassisted into the emergency room, where he complained of difficulty breathing and collapsed. He was admitted immediately for emergency surgery. Shortly before surgery to remove the bullet, which barely missed his heart, Reagan purportedly remarked to the operating doctor, "I hope you're a Republican." The head surgeon, liberal Democrat Joseph Giordano, purportedly replied, "Mr. President, today we are all Republicans." Reagan recovered quickly, despite being 70 years old, and was able to continue his presidential duties."

I guess we can agree to disagee!    And no, I don't want to let you shoot me with a .22...!  

MikLaw:

Here's a test for the .22lr out to 300 yards.  It sure boosted my feelings about the .22s lethality on long shots. 

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

Aw dang, does that mean you won't hold the target for me?

Well, I thought it was an interesting read.  I'm not sure that I would try a 300 yard shot with my Marlin 981T and probably not a 200 yard shot.  There's no doubt that the .22 requires a well placed round and at that distance, everything would have to be right on.  I was referring to the rounds ability to penetrate and there are rifles out there that will make a 200 yard shot.  I'm very confident that at 100 yards my Marlin is deadly accurate and if I had a safe place to shoot past that point, who knows. 

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Make em sharp and shoot em straight, or leave em home.

Survival?  I would go with the .22LR...War? that's a different story.

RC

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